Episode 2
The Pitfalls of a Hero Identity in Leadership
How do you shift from doing the work to supporting your team?
In the previous episode of Growth Through Learning, Hannah Brown spoke with leaders about the problems that develop when organizations focus on short-term results instead of long-term growth. When short-term results take precedence, leaders who have risen to management from a team member position often feel as though they must continue doing the work they did before. They end up micromanaging their highly capable teams.
This episode explores how leaders can begin to make the shift from “doing” to “leading” and build strong, capable teams that last. Hannah explores the challenges leaders face in making this transition—so often, they struggle to maintain control and eventually burn out. Under such imposing oversight, their team members experience deepening job dissatisfaction.
Consider your own leadership style through a growth mindset lens:
- Why a focus on results leads to burnout and dissatisfaction;
- The importance of letting go of control to become the heart or mind of the team;
- The essential mindset shift from being the best to supporting the best;
- How leaders can adjust how they use their time to build self-sufficient teams.
Connect with the leaders who share their stories on the show
- Christy Billan, Director of Small Business Lending Products, Farm Credit Canada
- Christine Helgerman, Director, St. John’s Christian Nursery School
- Len Switzer, Associate Director, Partnerships & External Relations, Michigan Technological University
- Adam Stephens, Director of Marketing and Community Engagement, The Humane Society of Kitchener Waterloo & Stratford Perth
- Chantal McIntyre, Talent Strategist, Workplace Consultant, and Leadership Coach
Connect with Hannah
- To order her latest book, Into the Hands of Leaders: Employee Growth Through Learning
- Learn about the programs that help leaders and organizations develop a growth through learning orientation
- Learn more about Hannah’s work
Follow and listen for free on your favourite podcast listening app!
Show Transcript
[OPENING THEME MUSIC IN]
HANNAH: The state of leadership in the workplace prioritizes getting things done at the expense of other goals, leading to short-term gains and compromising long-term growth. Leaders and their teams are struggling to balance a desire for immediate results with the need to build cohesive, effective teams.
In the last episode, we looked at how a top and bottom-line focus creates an unhealthy view of making and hiding mistakes. Team members are scared. They don’t speak up so there’s a vacuum of insight. Leaders don’t get the critical information they need to lead and make decisions. Turnover is high because of low employee morale.
How can leaders lead differently and build a culture that prioritizes learning and development for long-term sustained growth?
This is Growth through Learning – a 6-part series that anchors employee learning and team development into the hands of leaders. It bridges the gap between formal training and learning that’s embedded in the DNA of teams.
I’m Hannah Brown. This is episode 2.
On today’s episode, we’ll focus on the perspective of leaders who focus on output – getting results above all other priorities.
So what does it look like when leaders prioritize business results and performance?
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In my work with leaders and in my research for my book Into the Hands of Leaders: Employee Growth through Learning, control, ego, and lack of time emerged as challenges that leaders face in an output-focused organization.
The problem is that these behaviours lead to burnout for the leaders and dissatisfaction for employees.
Leaders become burned out because they hold onto control and double down on trying to be the expert. They think, “I’m supposed to have the technical skills to manage this successfully, but I don’t. What kind of a leader am I if I can’t do this?”
Successful employees are regularly promoted into management roles because of their technical expertise. If leaders carry that need to be the expert into their leadership they cling to control. Their expert identity craves perfection – to be better and just as capable as a leader as they were as an individual contributor.
Yet they don’t have full control because their team members have direct control over their work. So the leader feels more out of control, is less inclined to invite team members to collaborate, and often feels like an imposter.
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Christy Billan is the Director of Small Business Lending Products at Farm Credit Canada. We talked about her evolution as a leader and the critical shift she made over her leadership journey, from having more of a command-and-control style to a guide-and-empower style.
CHRISTY BILLAN: In the early days of my leadership journey, I mean, you’re stepping into a new role. You have really high expectations for yourself, and you feel like maybe you have something to prove.
HANNAH: Christy’s transition into leading a team happened when she moved from being a team member to leading the team. Since she had been an individual contributor, she knew the work inside and out and easily slipped into ‘doing mode.’
She had high expectations of herself and remembered feeling like she had something to prove. She felt like she needed to be in control and had her hands actively in the day-to-day work of her team. She was busy advising her team, solving their problems, and stepping in to do the work.
[MUSIC OUT]
CHRISTY BILLAN: There’s something around control, right. And that telling style, when it boils down to it, to me, comes back to control and feeling like you need to have your hands on everything. And you know, the only way to do that I think is by telling and being really on top and almost like micromanaging the work of the team. And in my case this was the truth. Like I kind of grew up in that team and then was elevated to lead that team. And so I was very familiar with the work, with the project streams, with the initiatives that were of priority for the team. And so it was very easy actually, to flip back into doing mode and think about how I would do it and be really explicit in telling like this is how it needs to be done, and this is what we’re going to do, right?
When I started to reflect on how things were going, right, I felt very busy and overwhelmed. And the root of that was like, because really I was causing this issue myself. And what it boiled down to is like the team actually wasn’t empowered to operate without me there, right? Like they didn’t have the confidence or they didn’t feel like they had the power, authority to make those decisions. And so everything had to kind of run up to me.”
HANNAH: Christy’s micromanaging approach had unintended consequences. The high stress she experienced was mirrored in her team, who were not empowered to operate without her. They lacked the power and authority to make decisions, and Christy became a bottleneck.
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Like Christy, Christine Helgerman also had challenges with control early on. Christine is the Director at St. John’s Christian Nursery School in Waterloo, Ontario.
CHRISTINE HELGERMAN: So I think when I started, leadership felt very controlled. So I was really like trying to control not only the scenario, but the outcomes, the direction, and kind of doing that by having an agenda and making sure that we’re following that agenda.
When I would do some leadership things 20 years ago, I wanted to get from point A to point B and on the same trajectory that I had envisioned as, right, so it’s like, I want to do it this way and this is how we’re going to do it. And so it’s easy to coerce people to kind of follow along.
HANNAH: Leaders need to replace control over doing the work, with control over how they coach and develop their employees, so the employees can do the work.
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We’ll discuss how to do this in a future episode, but for now, know that the struggle to balance doing the work versus managing others doing the work isn’t limited to new managers.
[MUSIC IN]
HANNAH: In the last episode, we briefly touched on ego and having a hero identity. Control ties deeply into ego. As Christine says…
CHRISTINE HELGERMAN: “It kind of goes back to that whole thing, right like that power. It’s a bit of a power when you hold all the information, you hold all the answers.”
HANNAH: Moving from control to being the heart or even the mind of an organization involves a change of identity. The ego may resist this when it’s driving the leaders’ actions.
In the first episode, we heard from Len Switzer, Associate Director, Partnerships & External Relations at Michigan Technological University. He talked about how leaders need to listen to adapt. Today, Len brings us a perspective about how when leaders drop their ego, they surround themselves with team members who have the expertise, knowledge and skills to create a well-rounded team.
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LEN SWITZER: You know, you’ll almost blame the education system for setting us up that way. You spent all this time in school, becoming an engineer, and taking all these tests, and showing having to show you’re smart, and then you hit the workplace and you think it’s the same and it starts off that way.
A lot of people it takes them a long time to realize that, you know, you don’t have to just continue to prove yourself like that. The collective mind is far more powerful than the individual mind.
HANNAH: Hmm.
LEN SWITZER: I remember hearing a, I was at a conference and I heard a, there was a gentleman who had started a company, you know, he was like an MIT grad, robotics engineer, he made underwater welding robots building offshore rigs, super smart guy. And one day he said, you know, you’ve started this company built these robots. And he said one day he’s like, you know, I cannot be the center of the universe for this. I know there’s people that know, have better ideas than me. And he talks about the transition of not being the one they go to first. So the classic you know, I don’t even know if this is a phrase I use all the time, I think others do too, but you know, leaders speak last.
HANNAH: Right.
LEN SWITZER: He tried to come up with that, live that mentality where, you know, to try to get people from always coming to him for the answers because he’s the smart one, he’s the one that’s always saved the day. So that, he realize, they probably have better ideas. You kind of gotta step down off your pedestal. So it’s an ego thing.
HANNAH: The interplay between being curious, which leads to empathy, and an overall caring approach to leading others can only be accomplished when the ego is kept in check.
[MUSIC IN]
I chatted with Adam Stephens, Director of Marketing and Community Engagement at the Humane Society of Kitchener Waterloo & Stratford Perth, about how caring for employees as people is at the core of his leadership approach.
ADAM STEPHENS: My feeling was that in order to be able to be an effective leader that one of the components that you would need to have is you would need to be able to have proverbially walked a mile in the other person’s shoes. And that better facilitates you know, good conversation, good communication, you know, better project management all of those kinds of things, empathy, all of that.
HANNAH: I asked Adam if he was always an empathic leader, and he shared a pivotal point in his leadership journey that shaped how he leads now.
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ADAM STEPHENS: I worked with this absolutely, incredibly talented individual. She was a web front-end web developer that I worked with. So I hired her. You know, I went through that entire process and then really was interesting with the experience was I had sort of gone in at that point, and had very wrongly made this assumption that I knew best what we needed to do with our company’s website. And then it was so abundantly evident that she was the knowledge expert in this situation.
And so I remember we were having this conversation where, and it was absolutely my fault, in our one-on-one she started, she was very passionate about what her field of expertise was. And so I was talking about, well, we should go this way on the website. And she was in that typical programmer way, it was like absolutely not. And here’s all the reasons why. And before you know it, she’s up on the whiteboard, and she’s drawing diagrams, why this whole thing is going to collapsing upon itself. And I’m having this moment where I’m like, I’m watching her defend her, effectively a thesis, and then I’m seeing what she’s putting up and I’m having this moment where I’m thinking she’s absolutely right. This would have been catastrophic if we had gone this way.
And then it was, it was that wonderful moment where I kind of realized you hire the people who are smarter than you. [LAUGH] And you trust them like if you trust them enough to hire them, then trust them through that process of working with them.
[MUSIC IN]
HANNAH: Adam’s approach would have been catastrophic. It took courage for him to realize his limitations, be open to his employee’s perspective, and value her contribution. He could have stood firm in his conviction that he was the expert in doing the work. Or he could have unnecessarily inserted himself into directing the solution, so he could maintain a hero identity, and feel a sense of worth and accomplishment for his contribution to solving the issue.
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
ADAM STEPHENS: I think it’s that fear of failure. This is a common thing that I’ve noticed in first-time managers. And I did it myself, where admittedly, like my first management role, I was a micromanager, for sure. And so I held on to those reins so tight because I felt like I was responsible for every single aspect of everything that I had been entrusted with.
HANNAH: Adam realized the person he hired was smarter than he was. He needed to let go of his ego and control, not be the expert, and step aside to allow his team member to shine.
As long as leaders hold onto their identity as experts and capable doers, their egos remain in tact. This prevents them from forming a new identity as leaders who coach and develop others. The ego needs a new source of satisfaction—that of supporting others.
When leaders embrace a coach identity, they can let go of their need to control. They can let go of the stress and feelings of inadequacy and embrace coaching and developing employees to achieve results through others.
[MUSIC IN]
The last challenge that emerged in my book research, and that I hear universally in my work with leaders, is lack of time. From executives to middle managers to front-line supervisors, everyone struggles with not having enough time to get their work done and accomplish their objectives.
I challenge this narrative for two reasons. First, in our fast-paced, ever-changing workplaces, there will never be enough time.
I also believe our lack of time is more about priorities than time. If you’re struggling with
a lack of time and your furnace breaks down in the dead of winter or your child is sick, you somehow find the time to call and wait for the technician or take your child to the doctor. More time doesn’t suddenly appear in your day. You automatically rearrange your priorities to make room for the technician or the doctor’s visit. When we truly need time, we find it.
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HANNAH: Let’s hear from Chantal McIntyre, Talent Strategist, Workplace Consultant, and Leadership Coach, who you might remember from episode one. Chantal describes this lack of time being exacerbated by a leader’s need for control and by holding onto their hero identity.
CHANTAL MCINTYRE: So the leader with the fixed mindset, who doesn’t make time for learning themselves and is only focused on results, will typically just speed by it and not deem it as important. So they’re the ones who I would say are not willing to make the time, they don’t have the patience, or they don’t want to learn the skill to teach or mentor or coach someone else into developing into a leader. And they’re short term thinkers. Okay, well, in the short term, I’m going to focus on myself and my bonus, [LAUGH] right? And how to get that and forget everything else. So, I would say they’re the least successful in terms of growing other leaders.
HANNAH: For a leader to shift from doing to leading, they need the courage and internal resolve to be a leader who leads through learning – coaching and developing their employees. They need to let go of controlling the details of the work and discard the hero identity.
Leaders need to reprioritize their time to make space for developing others, so their
teams become more capable and higher performing. When this happens, leaders can focus on more strategic work.
Chantal outlines some benefits of this approach.
CHANTAL MCINTYRE: tthe data points like net promoter score, high retention rates, so organizations and leaders that prioritize the development of others will see reduced turnover for sure.
HANNAH: Mmhmm.
CHANTAL MCINTYRE: And their net promoter score will be higher in terms of…
HANNAH: Yup.
CHANTAL MCINTYRE: …attracting talent. In terms of employee engagement think about, if leaders are investing in employee development, their job satisfaction will be higher. That will lead to higher engagement scores.
And then think about adaptability. So if leaders are actually taking the time to help their employees adapt, whether it’s to marketplace changes, industry changes, they’ll have a more skilled and flexible workforce.
Succession planning is a big one. So because retention is critical right now, a lot of leaders are looking at, you know, I can increase productivity and I won’t have to spend as much time recruiting, which is painful for them.
And then of course innovation. So look at the learning in terms of we’re going to expose each other to new ideas, our team is going to be our competitive advantage kind of strength.
And then the reputation of the actual organization increases. If they become known for developing employees, they’re going to be able to attract top talent way easier. So I’d say those are the significant benefits I’ve seen.
[CLOSING THEME MUSIC STARTS]
HANNAH: When leading with a focus on output, leaders become singularly focused on getting results at the expense of other priorities, such as learning, building relationships, and creating downtime to decompress and de-stress. They achieve results in the short term, but at the expense of long-term sustained growth.
Leaders and employees alike feel like hamsters in a wheel – trying to keep up and afraid a misstep will send them flying.
Now that we’ve looked at the leader’s perspective, what do employees need to thrive?
To fully understand how to create a team culture of learning, we need to also consider the employee’s perspective, which we’ll uncover on the next episode.
JULIANNA MORRIS: The stagnation is exactly those individuals that are with time. They’re there, they’re producing, but are they evolving? Are they developing? Are they growing?
HANNAH: For a more in depth analysis of why we need growth through learning instead of short-term results, check out my book, Into the Hands of Leaders: Employee Growth through Learning, published by Hambone Publishing in November 2024.
To learn more about developing how to nurture a learning mindset and fostering a team culture of learning, head to my website, hannahbrown.co.
Thanks to Mary Chan and Katie Pagacz of Organized Sound Productions, who produced, sound designed, and edited this podcast.
And special thanks to Adam Stephens, Chantal Mcintyre, Christy Billan, Christine Helgerman, and Len Switzer, the voices you heard on the show.
I’m Hannah Brown. And until next time, remember – organizations that grow, grow their people.
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